Filming The Invasion Of Ukraine

Luke Mailander, an an Associated Press camera operator, discusses his experiences traveling the world to bring breaking news and other stories to life. From the invasion of Ukraine to the Trump trials in 2024 Luke is always rolling to catch any action on camera.

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Show Notes:

00:00:00 Introduction and Overview
00:01:12 Shooting Film Stills
00:09:25 Starting in the Skateboarding World
00:18:48 Experiences in Dangerous Situations
00:25:08 Unbiased Reporting and the Role of Journalism
00:32:34 Witnessing History and the Importance of Reporting
00:34:01 The Importance of a Great Team
00:41:41 The Rise of Documentaries and Social Media
00:48:19 Favorite Places to Shoot
00:53:37 The News Cycle and Other Projects
00:57:21 Investing in Art
01:03:54 Advice for Aspiring Camera Ops

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Where To Find Sean:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-r-collins/
https://www.instagram.com/jukebooth/
https://www.jukebooth.com/

Transcript

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weren't a lot of police functioning in the area. So I feel like the local gangs kind of used that to their advantage and were doing whatever they were doing. And there was some sort of, there was a shooting between another rival gang and it just happened while we were on air. Today on the podcast, have Luke Mylander. He's an Associated Press camera operator and he travels the world to bring breaking news and other stories to life. And we talked about all of the aspects of traveling with gear to also traveling to some of the craziest places in the world. He was in Ukraine when it was invaded. And he also talked about the cool places he's been. Like he got to go to the World Cup and see the US play the Netherlands, which was awesome, even though they lost. But we talked about film and shooting 35 millimeter film still and how he does that to get some more creativity boosts. And it was just a really good all around conversation about the work he does for the Associated Press. Check it out. Luke, welcome to the podcast. I think one thing that I'd really like to tap into right away and immediately is how you shoot film still. You said you do some walks with your film camera. I do that as well. So what do you shoot with? Yeah, very often. To be honest, I don't have anything too fancy. I have a Canon. It's a Canon QL17G3. I think I bought it for like 150 bucks or something like that a few years ago. It's nice and compact. fits in a pocket. So it's easy to travel with me wherever I go. So it's definitely something I keep on hand pretty often. And it's a different way to take pictures. I really enjoy it. It's kind of a nice surprise when you get the film back and the tones and the color are just right. And it's really kind of a rewarding, gratifying feeling when you get your film back and it looks as you hoped it would. Yeah, it's fun to slow down too. I'm sure that is one of the reasons you do. I do it that way because everything's so fast in the video world. I'm sure with what you do at the Associated Press, it's nice to slow down. That's what it does is allows you to slow down a little bit. Definitely. You have to, well, one, it costs a little bit more money than digital. Yeah, it does force you kind of take a step back, think your frames, think your composition through and kind of value each click that you're pressing, know, kind of makes you think twice. Which is nice, know, it kind of, yeah, different way to shoot pictures for sure. Yeah, and I was checking out, I think it's Eggleston, William Eggleston. You said he was one of the guys that inspires you. I checked out some of his stuff. It's awesome. Like he was basically like pioneer of color photography back in, back in the day. Yeah, correct. and he, when you like read and listen to him talk, he doesn't always, I mean, subject matter, of course, but you know, you realize that, he's taking pictures a lot of everyday scenes that, know, you see out on the streets and he's really looking at a lot of the color. And that kind of made me think differently about. shooting film and pictures in general is not just composition and subject matter, but also the colors that are involved and how they play against each other, the contrast kind of recalibrated my eye, I guess, a little bit because composition is something that I'm looking at constantly for in the live broadcast world, like what's in the background, how much headroom does someone have, or where's their eyeline. you know, color kind of comes second. I mean, obviously you want it to be accurate. You don't want someone to be blue on TV, but I'm not looking so much as like, you know, what colors are playing against each other. I'm more so looking at, you know, what's the story about and how can I fit, you know, the background of whatever the reporter is in front of and make sure that's accurately reflecting of the story itself. So I'm not a film guy at all. I actually don't think I've ever shot film. Really? Come Yeah, I don't think I have. We're going to change that. That's fun. Even just the disposables are a great time. Yeah, well, yeah, so I've shot with disposables. does buying the film, whatever film you buy, that play into the colors that you get out of it? Yeah, for sure. There's definitely different film stocks that have their own look. people, I tend to always Fujifilm, Fujifilm C200, I just like how it looks. It looks accurate to my eye, but a lot of people like Kodak, Portra is like a big one that people use. Portra is supposed to be, have like really nice skin tones for portrait photography, but it takes really nice landscape shots as well. So a lot of people are still shooting films. There's different looks. Yeah, I think of a fair amount are, and it's kind of like making this comeback along with like a lot things in the analog world. Vinyl, I know, is like on the up and up and there's tons of new vinyl factories. So I feel like it's kind of part of this resurgence in the analog world. yeah, it is. It's a lot of fun. Definitely, definitely give it a shot the next time you're out and about. Yeah, you should try it. It's super fun. It's like, I don't know, there's something about it because you get to pick your film, you pick the lens and camera and it's like, get whatever. 36 shots, 24 shots per roll for shooting 35. And it's just fun. Damien, guess for me, the only photography that I enjoy shooting is wildlife photography. So I think me bringing a film camera out shooting wildlife would just... be a little bit more challenging You're always clicking, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, but it'd be sweet. Imagine taking a picture of a moose in a landscape. Like the film... Like when you see it, when it comes back, like Luke was saying, it's like, it literally looks like you were there. Like digital kind of has that digital sharp edge on it. And like film, it's crazy. Like the shadows, the highlights, everything's still there. Yeah, it's just a different look that I was always kind of drawn to. And yeah, like you were saying, different film stocks, different grain, different colors. People love to shoot black and white. There's like a film stock called Tri -X 400, very grainy, harsh contrast. And then there's also, I forget what else, there's also really fast black and white film stocks that have a very fine grain. So yeah, it's fun to just play around different stocks and see how it works in different scenarios. And did you shoot a lot of film like growing up too, or is that a new thing that you just took up? No, I started maybe about like seven or eight years ago, just kind of was interested in it. I think I took a class in high school, maybe to be honest, I'm not even, I don't even really remember how I got into it. But during COVID, I definitely like doubled down and learned how to develop my that's cool. Yeah, photographs at home, just to process it and scan it into a computer. That was my COVID activity for sure. gave me plenty of time to mess around. Lots of trial and error for sure. Yeah, it's fun to develop. I did that in high school, learned that whole process, and it was cool to see how long you leave it in certain chemicals and how long it takes for the film to be exposed. And it's cool to see the real process of it. Yeah, it's a process for sure. Huge learning curve. I was kind of like teaching myself, so a lot of time went into To be honest, I don't do it as much anymore. Definitely could be a little bit frustrating, especially I shot a lot of test rolls. You don't wanna use anything that, any pictures you really want back. So a lot of it was just walks in the neighborhood, but it was a good way to kill time during COVID and definitely fun. have to give it another go at one point or another. Yeah, I enjoy it. I don't do any of the developing myself anymore because like you said, it's like you mess up one thing. And then all of a everything's gone. All your pictures are gone. Breaks your heart. You come back and you have that empty roll of just white on every frame. You're like, god, that hurts a little bit. Yeah, it's like your hard drive getting erased. Exactly. you can't back it feeling. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So when you started getting into video and the whole film world, I think you said earlier that you started in the skateboard world. Like when you were skateboarding, you'd always film your friends skating. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's definitely where I got my start. Used to skateboard a lot as a kid, just always out in the street, running around with a few buddies of mine. But yeah, that was where I picked up my first video cameras. I the first one was a Hi8 camera. And then I moved, which was like the bigger tapes. And then I moved on to the Mini DV, which was like a little bit smaller. that was kind of when I first started digitizing the firewire and using the camera as an actual playback device and recording it into the computer and even just that process I kind of fell in love with. But yeah, was a great time. mean, I was always okay at skateboarding. I wasn't the best by any means, but I always got a huge thrill out of following my buddies around and... just shooting the scenes in between the skateboarding and putting it together into a little short at the end of the day. was always a great time. Definitely what helped fuel my love for it. Yeah, that's how Dan got his start. Dan's actually still a great skateboarder. is that right? Still skating, still getting hurt. No, that's actually exactly how I started in the film world was filming my friends. Really, I bought the camera for them to film me. but then no one wanted to film, so it turned out me filming. And I'm actually, same thing, mini DV. I tried Altoro back in the day, so I have it on a mini DV. I have no way to play it. And I'm texting my friends, like, how can I get this footage off this tape? Just because I don't have a converter or anything, so I'm still trying to figure out how to do that. Wait, I have one. You never told me that. stop it. Yeah, dude. I'll be over today. I have a bunch of cameras still. I have mini DVs. my god. Converters all that stuff. I didn't know you're trying to convert I thought about hitting you up cuz I hit up my other skater friends and They were just like, we have an old one But I don't know if it works it might eat the tape and I'm like, alright, but I never even thought about hitting you up I was like, I still have a couple. Yeah, make sure to send a copy of my way. I definitely Yeah, know I keep hearing about it, but I haven't seen it so I'm excited now to yeah There's only one one quick little clip on YouTube of it. That's a big stair set, right? Yeah. Yeah. My buddy, Dave Pacinski did kick flip down it and landed it. And then, some guy, I forget his name, Jocelyn or something, did tray flip landed it, but then fell. they don't, they don't count it, but, I count it. How many stairs is that? 20. Jesus. Yeah. Like, I don't see why that's ever a thing. Like you see a stair set and you're like, I should jump this on a skateboard. That seems crazy. I would definitely stay behind the camera on something like that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's, I mean, I used to skateboard and I filmed my friends, but I was more of like the one that filmed and like I wasn't that good. And it was fun to just be around it. And like the mini DV stuff is crazy. Like I remember that whole process. It was fun. But like now it's so much quicker. Like you don't have to watch the whole tape or wait for the whole tape to import. Yeah, especially if you're filming someone's line and you know, it's taking them a long time to finish. I'm like, looking at how far back you need to rewind that you can like re -record over. Do you remember when people had like the VX with the fisheye and they would put their hand over it? So you knew it was a good one. you knew, right, you're strolling through it, you knew that was a land. It was like a little visual cue to give yourself. Kids still do it now, but I don't think they realize what it was for. I had no idea that that's what that was for. It's like a marker to market. That's crazy. Yeah. There's all those little things that you learned back then that like you don't really even need to do now, but it's kind of fun to bring some of that stuff back. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Even some of the terminology still translate to this day, you know, film this, film that and you know, everyone's shooting digital. Yeah. So true. I think with what you do now too, did you ever see yourself doing the job that you do now, which is like traveling the world and filming news and different events that are happening? mean, you've done some incredible events and also some like dangerous situations. Like, did you ever think you'd be in the job you're in now? No. Well, you know what? I never really did. Skateboarding was kind of the jumping off point and then I made a lot short films with my buddies growing up. We always got a kick out of that. But between those two things, I always kind of knew that I wanted to work at camera in some capacity, but I didn't exactly know how. When you're a kid, you always think movies, but I wasn't sure how realistic that was. But I went to school, got my degree in TV and radio production, and then graduated. I was... my old man owned the landscape and company. So I was working with him and then I got my first freelance gig working for news 12, Long Island, which is like, the first 24 hour local news channel, I believe in the States. so I got my first gig with them, my first freelance gig with them working about like three days a week. I was doing the 12, 30 to 11 shifts running around grinding, doing local news That's kind of where I first got my love for the news. I love the hustle and bustle, the meeting the deadlines. I like the thrill of breaking news. Definitely gets your adrenaline going a little bit. So that was kind of where my love for the news started. And I definitely grew to really love it and appreciate it. It's definitely. I guess, you know, it's definitely a different kind of visual medium that I guess, you know, at first it's like, you know, fact -based and people are there for information, but I do think it's its own visual medium and its own regard. yeah, so then I got my job with the AP and I've been with them for the last about eight years. It'll be at the end of this month. So yeah, I've been very grateful. It's taken me Great countries, great stories, learned a ton with them, learned a ton about the world and it's been a ride for sure. Yeah, I think that's part of the cool aspect of that too, is you get to see the world, which opens your eyes to culture and what's around the world and how people interact differently in some of these locations that you're in. Yeah, definitely. You learn and I try immerse myself wherever I am. mean, I'm not definitely ignorant sometimes on some of the stories you need to go and cover. I'm not familiar with everything. So I definitely try to, especially if it's a new country, definitely try to learn as much about the culture as I can there and get out and talk to people. you know, doesn't even necessarily mean going to a museum in your downtime. You go to a restaurant or a bar and, you know, shoot it with the locals at night. That's how you learn a a lot about it. Hemingway has some good quote like that. forget exactly what it is, but it's essentially like, you you want to learn about the people and the culture. You go into the bar at the end of the night and have a pint with the locals. And I definitely find that to be true. I think that's the biggest thing with any sort of like networking or learning is like, if you want to learn about people, you need to be with them where they hang out, you know? And I think that's something that people like... often overlook. They're like, I'll learn about it online and then I'll go there and I'll try and speak the language. It's like, just go to that cafe or that bar and just sit there and like take it in. Like it's different than the U .S. It's different than Italy's different than Brazil. It's like all of course a different situation. Sometimes you're not even. as long as they're speaking English. Unfortunately, I don't speak many other languages. It's hard. But sometimes you even just catch like the glimpse of another conversation. You overhear someone, you're eavesdropping by accident and you can learn about how people are feeling about whatever event is happening. Maybe they might be talking about the story or they're covering. So, yeah, it's always good to go out and see things for yourself. meet people if you can and yeah, put yourself out there, immerse yourself a little bit. Yeah. And one of the things that you got to do too, which was really cool is you got to go to the world cup, which I am super jealous of because I've always wanted to go to the world cup and I still have not been. Yes, very lucky. I think it was actually the first football match I've ever been to was. That's pretty sweet. Yeah, super lucky. to see USA play the Netherlands. think it was the USA's, I think it was in their second round. Unfortunately they lost, but still very cool to be in a stadium that size surrounded by all these huge soccer fans. it was an incredible experience to say the least. I think that was the only game I went to, Even just working and following every day. mean, it was great world cup, great finish and to be there in the midst of it and hearing these fans after they win a game. Like I remember the Morocco Moroccan fans were just out in full force, like every night. That's awesome. You know, I was definitely working the morning shift. was up at like. 5 .36 in the mornings and I'm hearing these Moroccan fans like cruising around 2 a blessing music. You see their flags going through the streets. mean just incredible energy. It was so cool to be around and talk to people and Doha was a city like I think it was my first time in the Middle East. So Doha was kind of my first experience over there. So yeah all around just a great time. always got to work with great people. love the people I work with overseas. you know, you got to link up with some good friends that you haven't seen in a while too on some of these bigger events. Yeah. And when you travel to something like that, what does that look like for your group? Do you bring like a ton of Pelican cases? Is there a lot of local resources that you use there? Yeah, we ship. You know, it depends if I'm traveling domestically, everything's in a Pelican case and I'll bring everything with me. think usually about like seven cases of gear is about the norm, including the cart that I bring it on. But if we're traveling internationally, especially over to Doha, I think most of our gear came from our London bureau. Definitely some more, I think from New York and D .C. as well. And it all, we just work with shipping companies and it gets sent over there on pallets. So it is a huge build out. mean, you're there weeks in advance to help with stuff ever get lost? I was going to say lost or stolen. Yeah, inevitably, unfortunately. I have had a case get lost on me in Mexico City once after an earthquake. damn. Luckily, I was still pretty green, and I was with some other colleagues who were helping me. So I felt like the blame didn't totally fall on my shoulders, but yeah, it does happen. And things do get stolen. had a colleague of mine get his camera and all this stuff stolen and San Francisco last year we were covering the APEC and someone, think he was loading his gear in a taxi, turn his back for a minute and that's it. Two seconds later, I don't even know how much he lost 10, 15 grand. Damn. out the window. Yeah. we were think it's bad other places. Like San Francisco is pretty, like people will steal stuff quick. yeah. It happened quickly and we were staying downtown because we were staying close to the event venue, but we were in the Tenderloin, so you know, little sketchy over there and that's where it got swiped. So yeah, you got to be careful for sure. The camera is definitely the first thing I put in the taxi cab whenever I'm going because It's easy to take. Pelican case, not so much. So I always make sure it's the first thing in and the last one out. Yeah, and the Pelican cases are like a dead giveaway. That's the one thing with traveling with them that I see. I want to travel with one and I usually do, but depending on where we're going, I'll try and backpack it if I can. Because the minute somebody sees a Pelican case, there's questions, especially at borders. I've been questioned at the border in China before because they're like, why do you have a Pelican case? And what you doing here? mean, for you, it's probably a lot easier because you're associated press. you have passes and stuff. Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of military folks store their equipment in Pelican cases too, anything like that. So yeah, I could see eyebrows getting raised. When I'm on the plane, I definitely carry the camera with me. I'm like, we don't want it to one, get lost or two, just break on the way to whatever shoot you're going to. You don't want to like show up with all your gear, but have your camera be broken. So definitely carry it on. Always fighting with flight attendants who were telling me my carry on luggage is too big or too heavy. you know. happened to me once, like I went to go roll onto the plane, ladies like, that's not going to fit. I'm Yeah, well, it has before it and she's like, it's not gonna fit. And I'm like, can I try it? And she's like, no. And I'm like, well, I'm gonna try it. And so the other lady on the plane was like, he can try it. And then I was able to fit it on and I like looked down and I saw the other lady and I was like, it fit. And she was like, yeah, whatever. She hated you even more after that. Yeah, right. I love, you know, happens too. There's definitely an art to traveling and talking to people. I always go in with a big smile first, know? Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, sometimes you have to just kind of do what you have to do to get it on there and make it work. So, yeah. See, I love, like, I'm so interested in this. I mean, really you're the first person to like get the news before other people do as well. So like, I feel like that's pretty cool. And like, when you go to like a dangerous country, Reporting on news like how is that for you? Like are you excited to go and cover it or are you like a little nervous? To be honest something I'm never at Like I'm never at the front lines or anything because what I do is live broadcast. So we travel with a ton of equipment. So We're never upfront You know in the thick of it because we just have you One, it's just really not something that we do when we do live broadcasts. So we're always kind of in like a somewhat safer space, a capital. But you know, things like that do happen. Like it can get a little scarier times. was never something, it's something new to me for like the last two years. Been in and out of Ukraine like five or six times and then to Israel in October and December last year to cover the conflict there. But it was in Jerusalem and in Kiev and Lviv in Ukraine. So we were never in the Far East in Ukraine. We were never at the war, but I was in Kiev when the Russians pushed over the border. So I got to see the capital change very quickly in a couple of days to be completely devoid of civilians and businesses and all the ATMs emptied out of the money. It changed very, very quickly. That was kind of my first taste at it. We got there a couple of weeks before the invasion and then stayed for, I think maybe another week inside of Kiev before we took a very long car ride west to Lviv where a lot of the media was kind relocating to along with a lot of the embassies and diplomats and what have you. Now, do you have like your own biases when you go in? Like maybe the Russians are coming in and you're like, why are they doing this or whatever? Or are you just there shooting because you love to do it? No. I mean, as a journalist, you really need to like put that behind you. You can't have bias. can't have, you know, you don't let those thoughts creep in. You're there to report the news. And especially if it's in the beginning of You know, something very important like that, you know, you're just there to report the facts. You're there to get the facts out and the information out. You're not there to speculate or anything like that. just want to, especially because. I feel like working in the media, a lot of people are, have a lot of, you know, hostilities towards the media. They have their own biases towards the media. So, working for the AP at the, we're kind of, especially since we're a news agency as well, you know, so other news networks are buying their news from us. So there is, a standard and that, you know, and a very strict one that you need to uphold. You're not leaning left or right and you have very much watch what you're saying on the air. Luckily, I don't have to worry about that. But, you know, maybe even if it just comes down to how you frame something, you don't want to, you don't want to convey the wrong ideas. You just, you just want to make sure that you're there to get, you know, the story out, the information out as clearly and as factual as possible. You don't want You don't want to say anything that you're totally not sure of or is not totally confirmed. So even a lot of our own on air reporters will reference our own, what our own company is reporting first before we put it out on the air. Because I'll go to a story with my equipment and I'll go with our own AP reporter. And then a lot of the times news networks, whether they'd be domestic in the U S or international. If they don't have a team, they're reporting on the story that I'm there to cover. They can hire us for a live segment into their program, into their nightly news segment or what have you. So, the reporter I work with speaks six different languages. Wow. And, he will go live his name's Philip Crowther he will go live on to different networks around the world so that's the other thing i just think i'm just in my head thinking united states not even thinking that you guys also are doing this for around the world as well like other countries and stuff yeah most of our clients are most of our clients are international they could be spanish Chinese or German or French, anyone really. But then we also will do some domestic networks. When I was in Jerusalem, we worked with Fox sometimes or PBS or News Nation, a whole slew of them. Really, whoever wants a little extra help with their news program and we're able to facilitate it, we make it And how does that feel when you're going back to like Ukraine, when you're there and you're seeing a capital change and you're seeing people take money out of ATMs and you're seeing everybody like just scatter. How does that feel like as a person to like witness like a thing like this? Cause like I've never been in a situation like that. And so I don't know. what that feels like, but what does that feel like to be seeing all these people scared? I mean, that was the first time I had ever seen something like that. And was also the first time I had kind of been in a conflict zone. So I mean, it was definitely eye opening. You get the sense, you really get the sense how big this story is that you're witnessing. I don't know. mean, it was definitely a little nerve wracking to be honest. mean, it was, it was, you get to see kind of history starting to take its shape in front of you. And that's definitely a part of the job that I feel very privileged to see. But, yeah, it happened. It happened quick I don't know. guess it happened very quickly. And does that affect your life at all or do you think it changes your views on the world? You're like, okay, life is... I mean, everybody's always like, life is short, but you're like, okay, this is something that can happen anywhere. People are changing their demeanor about different things and aspects in life. And so does it make you think about life in general and just how you are affected as a person? Yeah, it does. mean, it really kind of puts things into perspective and you realize that, you know, even though this was on a much bigger scale, things like this are happening all over and people live through scenarios like this every day. And whether it's Ukraine or elsewhere, mean, things like this are happening all over the world. It's definitely, I feel like makes journalism that much more important just to get the story out there and make these events known worldwide. And the effect that they have long -term, especially this one. So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely important for people to be there and to continue to cover these stories and to get the world, get the word out to the world and make sure that people are aware of, what's happening and how this will affect the rest of the world long-term because, you know, you could feel it. We're in the midst of world You know, there's two huge, two big wars happening right now. Yeah. Very much, I mean, big kind of regional, but who knows what this could happen. Right. Exactly. Over the next few years and how this could influence things moving forward geopolitically. Yeah. And do you ever like, does something come across your desk like, Hey, we need you to go here Can you say you don't want to or do you always have to go to these places when they're like, hey, here's your assignment. You just have to go. No, I have the option. I never say no. don't think I've ever turned down a gig before. One, because I love to travel. As long as I'm out of the office, I'm happy. I to be out of the office. And yeah, it's always a learning experience too. I feel very lucky and privileged to be able to go and cover these stories. I don't want to say no. I'm thrilled when I get asked. Even when it's something a little bit more hectic or something that can be a little bit more scary, like covering stories in Israel and Gaza. I've never been in Gaza, only in Jerusalem and Ukraine. a lot of it has to do with the people that you work with. And I have great teams. all over the world here in the U S and London and the middle East. work with great people and that is a huge part of the job. Right. As long as you work with a great team, mean, one, you got to learn from people, especially who have been doing it longer than I am. But also, you know, when it does sometimes when it is a little nervous or it is a lot of, there is very, stress inducing. definitely helps to be surrounded by, by good folks and good people. And I know that I am, and that's a huge comfort. Honestly, when I was in Kiev, when the invasion happened, I was surrounded by a great team. you know, even though something very serious and, you know, at times scary is happening. You know, we were watching this like 40 mile Russian convoy barrel towards our location because they wanted to take the Capitol. You know, that was, that was scary to witness. It was also because it was my first time. So it was, you It was a little scary, but you were with great people and you can even squeeze some jokes out of it. We were having a good time regardless of the situation, not just making jokes amongst ourselves. Yeah, exactly. Because you have to do something like that. Have you seen the men in black scene where the spaceship is crashing and Jay's looking at Kay like, yo, We going with something like we're to move. That would be me if I saw these people coming at me. I'd be like, are we going to get about here? What you'd be leaving all the equipment every single drop everything and run. Yeah, that's true. Like I mean, I've seen your reel and there's a there's a part in your reel where like, don't know, it seemed like a gunshot was happening and you like kept your framing and the guy who was reporting like ducked down and you were like, I don't like. I feel like in that situation I would be like, I'm out. Yeah. That was the guy I was telling you about earlier, Philip. The polyglot. Yes, they work on shots. were there covering the year anniversary George Floyd's death, we were at the location where he had died. And something totally unrelated. was a gang shooting, had nothing to do with the story itself, but there weren't a lot of police functioning in the area. So I feel like the local gangs kind of use that to their advantage and were doing whatever they were doing. there was some sort of, there was a shooting between another rival gang and it just happened while we were on air. I happened to be recording caught the whole thing. At first, I feel like we just thought it was like firecrackers, because that happens sometimes, especially wherever you are. that just happens. But after a few, we realized that wasn't the case. And I just kept the framing for a second and then went wide just so I could capture whatever was going to unfold while me and Philip saw it a little bit of cover. there was a much he had behind a lamppost and that kinda like out wide at the bottom there was much around so it behind him but it's funny you're even thinking about the framework let me make sure i assume out before i go by you know yeah i mean sure i was recording and i made sure to go why just because you know you want to get whatever happens you want to make sure that you still get that so after a few seconds i ran back i was able to push in a little bit and get a little bit more it It wasn't very short. wasn't like a drive by. was definitely like a minute long. So after a few seconds, I was able to run back and zoom in and get a little bit more. But yeah, it's definitely a thrill for sure. That's crazy that you have that instinct. And do you think that's something you developed over time where it's like, you got to capture it. I got to frame it up. I'm here to cover what's happening, even if what's happening changes. You just like, you learned that over time or is that something you've always had? No, I think that's something you learn definitely, especially in the news world. You always want to make sure that you keep rolling. something, a lot of these things I was taught at my first job with News 12. Sometimes you go into hairy neighborhoods where it's late. you're by yourself and just with your reporter and you're always told, I was always told that, you know, your camera is your weapon, you know, stop recording. You know, if you kind of feel threatened, you record so you have that as proof later. And that's definitely an inst, like, you know, it's an instinct now. It wasn't back then. It was definitely something that was learned. But I think that's, you know, news influenced for sure. Yeah, it kind of has like a docu -esque feel too, like when you see any sort of documentary or docu -series, it's like always roll. You always have to roll because you have no idea. Like you can't reenact something that happened naturally, you know? So I think that's big. And I see that a lot with documentaries and news as well. Yeah, news and documentary are very closely entwined in that way. Yeah, is that ever a space that interests you too? Like if you were get out of news, would you ever go towards any sort of documentary, docu -series type stuff? Yeah, for sure. That's definitely something I miss or I'd like to pursue is just doing something a little bit more long format because I'm live. I love live. I love shooting live television because it is a thrill and everything that you're doing is happening in real time and everyone sees it. I like that. That's exhilarating for But I do miss shooting something a little bit longer format and sitting with it in the post part of the project and playing with editing playing with, you know, shooting a little bit more creatively. So yeah, I mean, I'd love to be able to pursue that at one time or another, but for now I'm sticking with what I'm doing. But who knows if that was an opportunity that presented itself down the line. It's definitely something I'd consider for sure. Yeah, it's an interesting space. I feel like it's gotten so much bigger now to documentaries and docu -series because I feel like we've gotten so far from interacting with each other that we always like, we crave these like podcasts, documentaries, like these interactions with people through the eyes of other people. Yeah. And it's, you know, even that much more accessible and there's so many outlets for it now. You know, we don't have to, you know, there's maybe there's not just like an hour and a half documentary. could sit down and watch, know, you can watch a little 10 minute whatever on your phone or on YouTube or on, you know, any social media. And that's, guess what's really great about it is that there's such great access to all sorts of content now. there's, you know, such a plethora of it and all, all types of different stuff out there, which, you know, it's ultimately good, I guess there's a, you know, gives everyone a chance to tell a story and get their story out there. Yeah. Cause even for the creators, I mean, people are filming with their GoPros. It's just so easy now to acquire a camera for cheap and film your story and put it That's great for young creators. It gives everyone a chance. Even if you want to have a little side project and you want to just do something for yourself, it gives everyone an outlet and it gives everyone a chance. Pretty much everyone's able to access it. You have a phone, that's it. Especially the phone cameras nowadays are incredible. You can do anything with the phone. So it's great outlet to have too. You know, that's something that we had as a shooting on tape. I know that was the thing with tape is like you shoot it and then you could watch it back on the little like whatever one inch screen, but like you have to wait till you got back, put it into the computer, watch it. And not only that too, sometimes it would eat the tape if you watch it back. if you're, you know what I mean? If the head wasn't clean or whatever, was Yeah, that was terrible. Yeah, definitely a little bit more of a process. And now you can get it out on social media and push it out right away. I don't think YouTube or any online platform was as big as it is today. Immediately you have something cut and ready. You can push it out to whoever wants to see it really. Yeah, it kind of works into that whole Reporting the news live is everybody's trying to report their life live and like show instant things that are happening Because I think we get so bored with like to seeing the same stuff So it's like you're hit with so much content constantly that it does feel like you're watching everything unfold live whether it's Twitter Instagram or any of these platforms. It's always like tons of things happening at once just signed up for Twitter seen the videos that they play on there, like some people upload, is like gruesome shit. And I'm like, I had to turn it off and like delete it. Cause I'm like, this is just every time I'm scrolling, I'd see like the craziest thing. There's no censorship at all on Twitter. Good and a bad thing, I guess. Yeah. It is definitely a fine line. Yeah. Some of it's like really like, cause I'm all about no censorship and all that stuff, but I'm like, some of it's, just like, I can't, this is too much. Yeah, is for sure. Yeah, I think that it's a good thing though to be able to see stuff unfold like on Twitter. Like sometimes you can get news pretty quick on Twitter too. Like somebody will say like instantly what's happening in a situation where you're like, wow, there's this, this like attack or like whatever this was happening right away. That's usually how a lot of things like, you know, you're not going to read something and think fact -based right away or that it's accurate, but it'll at least tell you where to look, like where something's happening like you know, and that you're exactly right. Twitter is like definitely first. Like people post on Twitter right away. So if you know, if you think something's happening and you're seeing a bunch of tweets come out, you know, definitely take it with a grain of salt, but you know, you know, maybe that's where you need to start looking or maybe that's where you need to send someone or that's where you need to have. eyes on the ground. yeah, that's definitely super useful tool to have. I don't personally have one, but I know a lot of my news junkie friends, where, you know, that's always what they're following. Yeah. Yeah. That's my platform of choice, just cause I like reading things. I mean, visually it's fun to look through videos, but sometimes it's like super overwhelming. So I like to like read about different things. And speaking of like finding the news, like a lot, whatever's happening right away. I heard of this thing and I don't know how well, like how much this is true, but I guess near the White House, anytime there's like any massive event or like big thing happening overnight, there's always like a surge in pizza delivery orders. I didn't know this is a thing. like people People watch. Were you saying this the other day or is this on? Yeah, this was on another podcast I listened to and they were talking about. There's like a thing that people watch like when pizza delivery goes up near DC, like the White House. Yeah, it's because they're like ordering pizza or whatever. And I guess they used to get it delivered and then it was like too many red flags. So now they're like looking at other options like Chinese and other things. But like people look at the takeout orders and when it goes They know that there's something going on, whether it's in another country or something overnight that we're dealing with. Something's cooking. wild. Yeah, it's so wild. People have figured that out. Yeah, it is. I think there's a great picture. I think it was of these secret service agents bringing all these bags of McDonald's in for Trump when he was president. And I think I was like reading a couple of comments and it's like, who would have thought, you know, you go through all the schooling, training, all this, like all these hoops, you have to jump through just to become a secret service. And then you're bringing in McDonald's to the president. I mean, I guess that's the only people that can do it. You know, like they don't have like a another person where they're like, Hey, you go do this. Like secret service are the only ones that probably go in and out easily there. Things need to stay secret. Yeah. Even the McDonald's orders, guess. That's right. It is kind of wild that people find these things to track in order to find out what's happening in the country or the world. It is. mean, it is very crazy how people find these trends. mean, it's amazing. It really is. What's one of the best places you've ever been for like your job? is there a favorite country, a favorite? City. oof i don't know really To be honest, I really only started traveling more out of the country like the last two years, a lot like a little bit more. So I feel like, you know, I guess Cuba was Cuba was a cool one. Very much. You know, it feels kind of like third world. It's poor. People are poor, but it's very much a beautiful country. I mean, the seaside is gorgeous. The people are beautiful. It feels like you are in a total time warp there. I mean, the cars, definitely, you you always see these old American cars that are from the fifties and sixties and they take amazing care of them. I mean, it's incredible. But even the architecture there is beautiful and it's just a complete different way of life down there. So I was lucky enough to get down there twice for Fidel Castro's funeral. And when Miguel Diaz -Canel was elected president there. hopefully I got to go back there one day. I've really only been to Havana and a couple of beaches outside of it, but yeah, such a cool city. are you going to the Olympics at all? Cause that's a big thing that's coming And Paris, man, I wish I tried to get in there. I sent a few emails and tried to work my way in there already. Everybody was on that one. They're like, I want to go. Yeah, exactly. Long list. Yeah, unfortunately not. But I'm pretty much stuck on election duty for this year. So I will be I'll be going to Atlanta. Pretty exciting. I bet. Yeah, that's kind of like the Olympics just in the US. Yes. Olympic ask for sure. People that are way older than they should be for president. It's like the senior Olympics. Yeah, exactly. That's pretty wild to watch. mean, yeah, yeah, we started in January, started in January with the caucuses and the primaries. then, know, candidates got whittled down fairly quick. But I'll be in Atlanta at end of the month to see the two of them debate, Biden and Trump. And then I'll be off to which I'm surprised they agreed. I'm surprised Biden even agreed to that or he, don't know that he did. Somebody agreed for him. But that just blows my mind. mean, that's just crazy to me. Yeah. I mean, I think there were already a bunch of scheduled dates, I think. So I think it kind of caught a lot of a lot of the media by surprise. I think it did catch Trump by surprise as well. But, you know, who knows? A lot can happen. It's only three weeks away. We'll see if anything changes. wouldn't be surprised, but hopefully it does. And hopefully it gives people a chance to listen to them on a somewhat controlled format. Yeah. Yeah. Now, what do you shoot for that? Like, are you outside shooting the crowd and waiting or? No, you know what? I won't be doing a lot of the editorial work. I'll just be doing, I'll be working with our reporters. Just pretty much getting like what's happening out. won't be, I don't think I'll be, no, that's a question. I don't know where we'll be. We're usually inside the venue, but we're not going to, I'm not going to see the two of them. You know, I'm not going to see the two of them debating on stage, but we'll either be outside or we'll be inside the venue, but outside the debate room. And pretty much just reporting on happens. We'll be watching it in real time. And you we'll be reporting any protests that'll be happening and you know, pretty much what it feels like to be there that day and what it means maybe going forward. I feel very privileged. mean, I do. I feel very lucky. You got to see history unfold. yeah, it's, it's incredible to see that. I'm hoping, yeah, think the rest of the election year will be an interesting one to say the least. I feel like people always say that. You've never seen this before. This is unprecedented, but a lot of the times it really is. So we'll see what happens. I'll be at the RNC in Milwaukee in July and then at the DNC in Chicago in August. And those are kind of like where each candidate will be formally. picked, I guess. So in between these massive events, do you have smaller things that you do or you just wait for something to break and then you go to Yeah, sometimes you do a little bit of waiting and that's the killer part of the job because I don't like to wait. yeah, and sometimes there's smaller stories that are only a couple of days. There's always breaking news that happens. I feel like the news cycle doesn't stay quiet for long. There's always something that comes We actually, my department actually also kind of, we don't just do news. We're also kind of like the production arm of the AP. So we'll do, we'll take on other gigs as well. We also will shoot, we have a client, the Sotheby's auction house and they auction a lot of art. during COVID they weren't allowed you know, everyone was keeping their distance and they weren't have in -house auctions anymore. So we had infrastructure in the same cities that they did, which was New York, London, Paris, and Hong Kong. And all of our, had a team in each city that would set up multiple cameras and shoot these auctions. It was very limited in person. They had their own people in -house that would make the bidding for their clients. And we would shoot and switch a four city auction. live and stream it out so that they can, they could still have people able to bid on these, you know, amazing pieces of art online, which was incredible. We still do it for them. They now they have, they moved away from the virtual auction. I think we just did one a couple of weeks ago and I think they had about 200 people in house. You could, we still shoot it and stream it and switch so that people could still bid online. But that's kind of like something fun, a little different, a different kind of thing that we will produce. It's definitely amazing to see these artists that you learn about in textbooks and you get to see these like Picasso's or these like giant Rothko's spreading out in front of you. I'll never forget one of the first ones we ever did, this Botticelli got auctioned for about like 90 million. beautiful Renaissance painting and you got to see it right in front of you. I mean, it was incredible. Ninety million dollars. Right. become a painter. You're gonna become a painter? You can't just become a painter. You have to die first and then it's worth money. can cut off my ear or something. It is crazy what people spend on art. I mean, I get it, but it's like it's an auction and people are like, yep, 20 million. Yep, 40 million. It's like, damn. Like, how much money do you have to have to spend $90 million on a painting? On one painting, Then I've heard also when people get stuff like that, there's, I don't know how true this is, but I think if you don't bring the art to your house or to your location, you can leave it in a space, like you bring a replica, you don't somehow pay the taxes on the sale because it stays within The crowns of the art house. Yeah. I don't know how true that is, but I've heard that like some people that buy these also don't keep them on their wall because if they get robbed, but they have a replica that looks exactly like it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know much about that either. I know I'd probably want to keep it somewhere safe and safe and, you know, at the correct temperature with no sunlight. And, you know, I'd imagine you'd want that on there. Super controlled. environment because it's very much an investment. Some people invest in property and business and the stock market and there's art is definitely another form of investment because some of these pieces they announced haven't been outside of a private collection in 40, 50 years. So it's like hitting the art market 50 years later and just builds value over all those decades. It's cool too because now they've developed, I forget what the program's called, but there's a program that regular everyday people can now invest in art. So you can own like pieces of the art. A piece of it, a share of it. Which is really just talking to someone about that the other day actually, yeah. It kind of made me think twice about it. I'm like, maybe I could just buy like one little bit of a Picasso or something. and then like when it sells or if you sell your share, if it's appreciated, it's a really great idea because you have like you want to be able to like spread assets around and like that's a great way to do it because like we're not going to be able to go buy a Picasso but you could buy the piece of the Picasso and then it gets sold for whatever an extra 20, 30 million and you make like a piece of that. interesting. Yeah. It's like fractalizing art. Yeah. Definitely a cool idea and probably something I'm going to look into as well. Yeah. forget what the company's little bit more, I don't know, like you're able to jump in. I think more of that is happening now, which is cool. It's allowing people to jump in to markets that were just not available to everybody. would frame my little square somewhere on the wall. That's true. I don't know if they do it that way. If they're like, own this pixel of this Picasso. I like that idea though. They should, when you buy your little piece of art, they should give you a little visual representation of the piece that you have, even if it's a little blue square, know, the little piece of sky. That's actually not a bad idea. I wonder if they do that where it's like, this is the piece you own. It's kind of like when people, I don't know if people still do this, but you used to be able to buy stars. Be like, I own a star. yeah. You have like a certificate. that's fine. You can buy, you can buy, you can, you can buy animals and shit at the You can? I know people who like, I bought a panda. I mean, you don't own it, but like, just, they just send you a certificate saying, this is your panda. This is your tiger. I mean, it's just a way for them to get money and you feel like you own something, but it's crazy. Yeah. I think they do that for like animal sanctuaries. Animal sanctuaries, think they get to do that too, where you like, donate and they're like, this is the elephant that you've donated money towards. They just send you a random elephant. Yeah, they just send you the same picture to everybody. Like they're like just driving around in like Lambos and Maseratis and they're like, thanks for donating to this elephant that we keep showing everybody else. I wonder how many things are like that where they're like, think that's why I like anytime I go to like Petco or some other place, they're like, would you like to donate? And I'm like, dude, you were just telling me about this. this really going to the cause? Cause like, I don't know that I believe If it was, I would love to donate. I don't. What I heard. No. Was they are the company and I think I thought we talked about this, but the company already donated money to them. This is for them to collect to get their money back. Right. And probably plus some. Right. And there's yeah, there's no cap on it. They're not like, sorry, we've already collected the amount. They're like, reached our money. Yeah, that's true. So they basically donate a million dollars and then they wait for everybody else to give them like a million and a and they keep doing different causes. That's kind of crazy. Yeah. don't know where that whole space will end up because it's like, think people are opening their eyes to these things where it's like, is my money really going to these causes? I think it's better to just wait and either give money to somebody that really needs it personally or donate straight to a cause, like go an animal shelter and donate money. think that's a better way to do it nowadays, just because you know where it's going. I don't know. For sure. Definitely probably benefits if you know the owner of the cause or whatever. Want to make sure doesn't get lost or skinned along the way. Going back to the film walks that you go on, what's your favorite? What are you looking to shoot when you like, is it landscapes? Is it street photography? Is there something that you're drawn towards more as a people? To be honest, it's very rarely people. I'm not a big portrait guy. I guess I know a lot of people. That's what they like. I'm definitely not up close in anyone's face. You see like a lot of street photographers, their flashes and they're showing their cameras in someone's face and catching them off guard. It's definitely not my style at My small little Canon has a 40 millimeter fixed lens and it's definitely, I guess it's similar to what your eye sees. I'm definitely shooting buildings or landscapes or something. Scenes are a little bit wider. If there's people in it, they're small, far away. Kind of like an establishing. type of scene, you know? Yeah. Do you bring it with you when you go over to those other countries to like maybe get some cool, cool shots like that? Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah. It's, and that's another way that, you know, I told you to like go out and immerse yourself and see people, but I definitely, when I have a little downtime, I definitely bring my camera and we'll just go on big long walks. And, you know, that makes it a lot of fun, you know, just to be out on your own, kind of doing your own thing. And it gives a nice memory to look back on, know, I try to, I definitely save all my negatives, I get them all digitized so they're all on my computer and on a hard drive and I like to print them out every now and again. You know, even if I'll just put up a few in my apartment or give a couple of prints to someone or whatever, but yeah, that's definitely, that's definitely probably one of the times that I really like love most to shoot is when I'm out on assignment and I get to bring my camera have a little bit of time for myself and take advantage of that time, yeah, for sure. Now, what do you think if somebody was trying to get into the field of Associated Press and operate cameras and live switching, what do you think the path is? Is it the news station, local news station you think like you did or do you think there's another way that's better? You know what? If you can, yeah, mean, if you can break in, I learned that really gave me my a great start. The local news. For me, at least. mean, that's where I really learned how to shoot and edit a news package. That's where you learn how to deal with stress. That's where you learn how to cut a package, a news package, very quickly. You know, that's how you learn how to meet deadlines and where to cut corners and where not to. But, you know, I guess just going back and there just being so many different outlets on social media and, you know, what news websites. blogs, you know, there's definitely who knows, you know, lot of people I'm sure get their start just by publishing their own, their own stuff. It's definitely for me. I mean, it was a learn by doing field. went to school for TV and radio production, but I learned so much more in, you know, three, six months at freelancing for News 12 than I did in like four years of school. You need to, you need to do to learn it. You need to get out there and talk to people to get a sense for how things really work and, you know, different techniques to talk to people or shoot people Yeah, it's definitely a learn by do for me. as long as you're getting out there creating and working hard and you like what you do and you're putting, you're making an effort to get out there, I'm sure things will fall into place. Just definitely practice and put your stuff out there so that as many people can see it as possible. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You learn more from from doing the thing, especially in the creative field. Yeah, and maybe that's not all aspects. But for the camera work, for me, yes. Maybe if you want to go be a news journalist or you want to write, there's a lot of standards that you have to learn about and read about. You can read and learn that way and read what not to do and what to do. But for camera work, it's a visual medium. you need to get the camera up and see what works and what doesn't. Yeah. Well, this has been awesome. We appreciate you coming on here and hanging out with us and bringing us through what you do at the Associated Press. Yeah, man. Thank you guys both, Sean and Dan. I really much appreciate you guys having me on. This was kind of my first interview, so I for any flubs or anything. But yeah, thank you guys very much. It was a pleasure. Yeah, this is awesome. Cool.